Have you seen this prayer given by the “Rev.” Arnold Conrad to open a McCain-Palin rally in Iowa? If you wonder why I put reverand in quotes you will see why after hearing this outlandish prayer.
Filed under: Politics | Tagged: McCain, Politics, Prayer, religion
Using God in politics is sacrilege. I am convinced God hates politics which is a disgusting display of complaining, inflated accomplishments, verbal attacks, unrealistic promises, lies, obscene amounts of wasted money, power, and moral “high ground” usually paraded in religious pageantry that proffers a deeper stream of piety every four years only to recede afterward to more accurately reflect the actual volume.
I hope I’ve made my views clear.
Rick, next time you post I would appreciate it if you would stop beating around the bush
Yet, despite your circumlocution I couldn’t agree more. That is not to say our faith is apolitical (I certainly feel, as I believe you do as well, that our faith should be politically active) but to use God as a political voodoo doll as this “pastor” is doing is blasphemy, IMO.
I seem to remember Elisha praying a similar prayer in the OT
Also, David and his impracatory Psalms…
And I don’t see us criticizing Louis Farakhan calling Obama the chosen one. I don’t see us commenting on the radical islamics praying for Obama’s victory.
He didn’t say my God ca beat up your God, and whether McCain or Obama wins, God’s will has been done.
He didn’t say my God ca beat up your God, and whether McCain or Obama wins, God’s will has been done.
That is a convenient “out” and not an impractical one since Obama looks to have this wrapped up.
But it misses the point of this pastor’s prayer – he has already capitulated that if Obama wins than “their” God is bigger than his God.
Pastordude,
I would venture to guess that there are non religious and other religious folks who are voting both ways in this election, and “the god’s” everywhere are getting plenty of prayers about the election. I would not have a problem with this prayer, if since you mentioned Elisha…Obama has come out and said, I will become the next president of the US and Allah will see to it…then asking God to show up and show out is warranted. But not in this case. This prayer is not even smart in this situation…it paints McCain in a negative light and the media could run wild with this!!!
To your comment on the Farakhan comments calling Obama the messiah or a messiah, I think anyone watching that for the first time will have to pick their jaws off the floor like I did. I sent it to everyone I know and labelled it “scary” in the subject line…so I agree the words from Farakhan are enough to make you go hhhhmmmmm.
Peace
Hey Chad,
Where do you find this stuff?
I think the prayer is pretty harmless, but reveals how insecure and fearful he is. (Isn’t that how we feel when we believe it’s up to us and not God?) He needs to be reminded, as do I on a daily basis, that the God he is praying to is in control and is faithful.
Still undecided (and I still believe that God is neither republican or democrat),
Allen
hmmm…So an evangelical pastor is somehow comparable to the ravings of a fringe, religious minority hack?
Well, at least you’re admitting what the world sees…
seriously though,
the fact that this stuff actually has a home in the republican party is crazy to me.
It isn’t a harmless prayer, because it does represent the views of a lot of folk who don’t know where the worst of their religious views end and common sense in pluralist political discourse begins.
ick.
ick.
ick.
ick.
Tony -
Good comments. I agree. And pastordude, If I heard anyone praying a prayer like this at an Obama rally I would be equally upset.
Allen-
I first heard the prayer last night on CNN and this morning checked to see if it was on YouTube. Everything is on YouTube. Your birth is on Youtube (just kidding).
Amen to God not being Rep. or Dem (or even American, for that matter).
peace to you!
my point about the pastor vs. farrakhan is that there IS a qualitative difference between supposedly “mainstream” evangelicals that enjoy political clout and the Nation of Islam.
I haven’t seen the Farrakhan bit but isn’t there a difference between Farrakhan or Oprah calling Obama or anyone for that matter “the one” or the “Messiah” (and mistakingly so) and a pastor calling upon God to endorse one or any candidate?
nc-
didnt see your first comment up above.
Yeah, I think a prayer like this can do some serious harm in that it co-opts God in an attempt to sanctify or baptize our own personal political agenda. We have seen in history what happens when sincere religious folk use religious language to endorse their own agenda and it never ends up well. This amounts to little more than creating a god in our own image, IMO.
Gonna kick back and sip on this refreshing Amberbock (thanks, Allen) and read J. Kameron Carter’s essay on Race, Religion, and the Contradictions of Identity so I can take a midterm tomorrow. Perhaps I will also get a glimpse into what is going on with this presidential “race.”
cheers.
I guess the question this praying man is raising is whether or not God is bigger than our fear. Why do we vote? …to make us feel more secure in our own little world? Perhaps Farrakhan and Oprah feel a little better about their world when they label Obama “the one”. (I still believe that the neo dude in the first Matrix is truly “the one.”)
I’m trying to decide who to vote for and why. Am I voting for someone out of fear, or against someone because of it. If someone hears this prayer and really believes that’s this is what it’s all about, one will vote McCain and feel like they made a difference. If one hears this and thinks that he’s wacked, and decides to vote for Obama because he has Don Miller on his praying team, one will feel like they’re making a difference. My point: Regardless our political reasons…we must trust God about all of this, or find ourselves making idiotic prayers on CNN.
Still undecided,
Allen
Chad,
God is in control, and His will is done whoever wins. I know who I will vote for, because even though having a young, articulate man who promises the world is very attractive to me, I cannot justify as a Christian voting for someone who has a voting record reagrding abortion like he has, who has only voted for tax hikes like he has, who has no grasp whatever of foreign policy, and has made promises that are not supported at all by his voting record, in addition to the associations that he has that he only denies after they have been exposed as racist and leftist pastors and/or terrorists. I only wish that he did not have all that baggage!
God is in control, and should Obama win like it looks like He will, I will pray for Obama because He will be my president and God has told me to pray for Him.
And by the way, Chad……God already knows the outcome of this election!
Allen-
Great question: Why do we vote? In the grand scheme of things I guess it amounts to nothing more or less than a civic duty – one that hopefully we do not become overly convinced is going to be our savior. Like you said, we must trust God – period.
How is the school year going for ya? Have you picked up Bell’s new book yet?
grace and peace
God is in control, and His will is done whoever wins.
Pastordude (is this pastorboy from crn?) -
I would probably tweak the above line to read: “God is in control, and His will will be brought to fruition in God’s good time regardless of who wins this election.”
Your comments brings up some interesting questions worth consideration, however.
Is every leader or government official in their office because God chose them, specifically?
If Obama wins, does this mean that every decision he makes during his presidency is God’s “will”?
If McCain wins, does it mean the same?
Regarding abortion: If Obama wins does it mean God must will that abortions continue?
Regarding war: If McCain wins, does it mean God must will that this war is just and should continue?
Regarding taxes: If Obama wins does it mean God must will that people making over $250,000/yr get their taxes raised?
Regarding homes: If McCain wins does it mean that God must will that people who can’t pay their mortgage get bailed out?
Certainly we can agree that God’s will is not restricted to the USA or to this time period, so was it God’s will that Hitler make the decisions he made? Was it God’s will that Stalin be in charge of communist Russia? Is it God’s will that communism continues to thrive in China and Cuba? Is it God’s will that Bin Laden is in “leadership” of his faction of people and that 9/11 happened?
We could go on and on. God certainly has a will. I believe that will far exceeds, or is far more robust, than who is elected as our president for these next 4 years or who is my governor in NC or who is my city council representative or who sits on my kids school board.
God’s will for me is that in all things I give God thanks. It is that I love mercy, seek justice and walk humbly with my God (Micah 6:8). It is that I love God and neighbor. It is to be a part of his bride, the Church, and be a light to the world that is in darkness and part of that darkness is their dependency on an elected official to save the day or be God’s new messiah.
Ok, enough rambling. I’d be interested to hear anyone’s thoughts on any of the above.
grace and peace.
Yes, Chad, the Bible is clear.
Those who are in political power are in place because God allowed it to happen.
Even Hitler.
Whoever gets elected this election cycle, God will have placed them there for this time, for His purposes, for His glory.
Pastorboy,
Obviously there is a difference in understanding the soverignty of God on this blog. Your idea of soverignty is Calvinist or Reformed and mine and others are not. I find it funny that you say God’s will is one thing and you will vote the other, because knowing God’s will and/or voting God’s will is not possible?
If God is “up there” doing whatever He wants to do with us “down here” then why are we active in voting? I just can’t bring my understanding of scripture to include God has us all on a string doing whatever He pleases to whom ever He pleases, including killing millions of Jews on purpose since He put Hitler in power for a purpose, and since He knows all things ahead of time it must have pleased Him to eliminate 6 million Jews in such a short period of time and in such a terrible and unfair way.
I guess the scriptures are clear to both of us…yet someone is incorrect. Perhaps we are both off and will know the truth in it’s fullness when His time has come!
Peace,
pb-
I’m not so sure it is as “clear” as we might like to think.
Yes, Rom. 13 seems to say that governing authority is in place because God so ordains it. It does not, however, declare that individual leaders are the puppets God has put into place or that they are the arbiters of God’s sovereign will.
Romans 13 is usually cited as the passage par excellance to sanctify governing rule and to even declare (atrosiously) that even Hitler is a vessel of God’s good and perfect will. A theology such as this can only come about when we first make God the author of evil, which God is not.
But furthermore, those who trumpet Romans 13 fail to consider other passages that need to be held in tension with this. For example:
1 Cor. 2:6-8: Yet among the mature we do speak wisdom, though it is not a wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are doomed to perish. But we speak God’s wisdom, secret and hidden, which God decreed before the ages for our glory. NOne of the rulers of this age understood this; for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
or
1 Cor. 15:24-26: Then comes the end, when he hands over the kingdom to God the Father, after he has destroyed every ruler and every authority and power. For he must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. The last enemy to be destroyed is death.
notice in the above verse 25: He must reign until he has put all his enemies under his feet. This is speaking of Jesus, who reigns now, and will reign “until” all the enemies are put under his feet. Who are the enemies? The “rulers” and “authorities” and “powers.”
also see 1 Thess. 5:3-11
It appears to not be as “clear” as we might like to presume.
PB-
I’m curious..
You claim that even Hitler was in power because God so willed it (and by this I take it to mean you think God is actively willing it to happen, not just passively allowing it to happen, yes?).
If this is true, what is your opinion of the two factions that developed within the church during Hitler’s rise to power and his implementation of his Solution? As I’m sure you know, there were many pastors and theologians who signed off on Hitler’s plan and supported it. There were others, like Barth and Bonhoeffer, who oppossed it. If our goverment leaders are there by God’s sanction and God’s will, who among those two church groups made the right decision?
Chad,
Thanks for posting the video and ruining my coffee. I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.
I completely disagree with the first comment by Rick. Using God in politics is NOT sacrilege. Being Christian is a political act because it is a declaration that I will commit myself to work within whatever political and social systems I find myself to make Jesus’ dream of a just society a reality. In my case, I live in a democracy, therefore my commitment must take the shape of political action. That’s the most effective venue for creating justice, liberation, reconciliation, and peace (the values of the Kingdom of God). To disengage from politics would be to turn a deaf ear to the command to take up my cross and follow Jesus to the capital city and protest.
Politics is simply following in the footsteps of Jesus (the community organizer that lead a march to the capital some 2000 years ago and confronted the leadership). I don’t have a problem with a prayer about elections in church. I have a problem that he chose the candidate that least represents the major themes of the Bible.
Thanks for posting the video and running my coffee. I just threw up a little bit in my mouth.
lol. Sorry about that. Our mission trip in 2009 is going to Blue Mountain, Jamaica. We will be staying right next to the Blue Mountain coffee factory. I’ll ship ya a pound of it to make up for this morning
To disengage from politics would be to turn a deaf ear to the command to take up my cross and follow Jesus to the capital city and protest.
Beautifully put. The church, IMO, has done a huge disservice in abdicating its political message to the government. We have enclosed ourselves off from the world and concentrated on “souls” rather than on actively pursuing God’s Kingdom “on earth as it is in heaven.”
Politics is simply following in the footsteps of Jesus (the community organizer that lead a march to the capital some 2000 years ago and confronted the leadership).
Yes!
I preached a sermon a while back entitled “Jesus Comes to Washington.” I might dust it off and post it here. Actually, I am curious to see how much my thought has changed (matured?) from then till now…
I don’t have a problem with a prayer about elections in church. I have a problem that he chose the candidate that least represents the major themes of the Bible.
I agree. I do have a problem, however, with the way in which this minister put an ultimatum to God and suggested that if Obama wins the election than Yahweh has been beaten by the God that I guess all of us Obama supporters must be praying to.
I think that anyone who can vote for Obama certainly does not serve the same God I do, because God is concerned about life, and Obama, despite his lies to the contrary, supports the FOCA act, as well as voting for the right to kill a live baby born as a result of a botched abortion.
But, I know, those who go to the liberal theological school at Duke can certainly find a way to justify voting for him.
PB-
No response to my replies to you in posts 19 and 20?
If you care to actually discuss something of substance I would welcome that.
peace,
Chad
Pastordude.
If the God you serve wouldn’t vote for Obama, why would He make him president? You said yourself God will do what he wants to do, even if that means making Obama the president. See this is why I’m confused about your understanding of The Sovereignty of God. I hear you saying Obama is not the right guy and doesn’t serve your God…but in the same breadth you say, but if he is elected it’s God’s doing…or fault in this case because the wrong guy became president.
I don’t mean to come across as snide but I’m just trying to figure the rhetoric out!
Peace
Tony-
Apparently Pastordude feels that the mark of a true Christian is determined by who they vote for in an election. It is interesting that Jesus commanded his followers to give to Caesar what belongs to Caesar rather than telling them “if you support someone who commits infratricide, dehumanizing games, kills all who oppose him and a whole host of evils you are not my disciple.” To demonize Obama is to make his opponent, by default, righteous.
and Obama, despite his lies to the contrary, supports the FOCA act, as well as voting for the right to kill a live baby born as a result of a botched abortion.
I thought Obama’s response to the abortion issue and the votes you bring up here in last night’s debate were well stated. I thought his answer about what he will do with the Supreme Court and Roe vs. Wade was far better than McCain’s.
Chad
I am in favor of realizing Roe v Wade is not overturned yet, so let’s make provisions to reduce unwanted pregnancy etc. But Obama’s answer was a little funny, immature at best…he made it sound like we just need to do a better job educating young American on sex, and make sure they actually understand it should be done in the sanctity of marriage between committed men and women…surely that will reduce the amount of unwanted pregnancies and by default help the cause of abortion. That is what I call serious “headinthesandsyndrome”
Let’s come up with a better explanation if you’re going to take this position. I disagree with the concept of abortion and feel if American could actually think about anything logically and not ideologically and politically maybe we could come up with a solution to the modern day holocaust! But you know us Americans; we are always looking for something to help continue polarizing our society!
I also dislike the whole “health of the mother” issue on abortion…especially since Obama’s comments pertained to partial birth abortion and late term abortions. I have asked Dr’s, nurses, and experts on this to make sure I wasn’t missing anything. There is no health risk in a late term pregnancy that having a c-section would not prevent or help in some measure. In other words, if the mother’s health is at risk, and she is 8 months pregnant, have a C-section not an abortion. This is the best way to get health restored to the mother. The other issue I have with the abortion agenda and especially the late term abortions is the same I have with killing and war. We always focus on the innocent or not so innocent that dies in these wars. But what about what it does to the one doing the killing. If you’re forced to take a gun and shoot someone at close range in hate or in self defense…this damages the soul. I’m convinced God warned about murder and killing because of the effect it has on the one doing the killing as well as the effect it has on the one who is killed. Self defense would be considered a last resort, and still has psychological effects on everyone involved. With that said…how hard of a decision would it be for a women to carry a baby for 8 months, feeling life inside of her moving and breathing, attending baby showers, having ultrasounds, and decorating the nursery all in anticipation for a new born baby…to be told that she should let the Dr. pull the baby out by it’s feet, and while the head is still in the mother, put a long rod into the brain and kill the baby for her “health”. Again everyone tells me there is no health risk that a C-section would not fix or help in the case when a baby or a mother is in danger during pregnancy!
Tony-
I agree. I think abortion is horrible in all its manifestations – period. As a pastor I would do all in my power by God’s grace to counsel any woman or family against abortion, even if it meant seeking an adoptive family on their behalf.
I guess you might call me a pro-life Democrat who used to be a Republican.
With that said, however, as my friend Bryan recently pointed out to me in an email, there are many, many pro-life issues. I am against war at any cost. I am oppossed to guns. I am for health care for all human beings regardless of age, race, sex or beliefs. I am for the poor, the least of these. I am against the “trickle down theory” that only allows the rich to get richer and the poor more desperate. I am not oppossed to “sharing the wealth” as I see that as being far more biblical than anything else politicians most often offer.
In other words, the democratic platform aligns, IMO, with the gospel in a number of ways that the other parties do not. I understand the arguments on both sides of the abortion debate. I may not agree with my friends on the other side or I may think there are better ways to do things but that will always be the case. Evil exists in the world and we are crazy if we think an elected official is going to bring lasting shalom and restore righteousness to the earth.
peace.
Exactly, let’s take America back from the politicians and the wealthy and actually get something accomplished! I agree that sharing the wealth aligns itself with the gospel more than the rich getting richer…but I’m not convinced Obama or any politician can or even want to make that happen. I think ear marks, special interest groups, and lobbyists run Washington and our country because they have the money and ALL politicians will bow down to them. In the end, Democrats may say they want to redistribute the wealth, but what ends up happening is the jobs go overseas to escape the IRS, they find tax shelters off shore and pay less taxes anyway, so that the programs are under-funded, ineffective, or unusable! We also have an epidemic in this country of people with their hand out…this is not biblical in my opinion. God is a God of hard work, honor, and integrity. And you also have to be careful about looking to the government to redistribute the wealth. Jesus was talking to His disciples, and the Church when he instructs to sell what you have and make no one is in need. In my opinion the country should govern a very small amount of programs and service (military, municipalities, etc.) and the CHURCH should be the one helping people with their needs. And the healthcare issue is like all the rest. Everyone deserves it, I couldn’t agree more. The system is in the state it’s in because of Washington not in spite of it.
Greed is killing the American Dream. And our bible says the love of money (greed) is the root of all evil. Our country and our people are in shambles, because of this greed…and I’m afraid Washington is just as guilty for being public servants who are always looking out for #1 before they are looking out for those they serve!
We also have an epidemic in this country of people with their hand out…this is not biblical in my opinion. God is a God of hard work, honor, and integrity.
Tony, I understand the sentiment behind what you say here. I do agree that many, many of us are standing around with our hand out. I’m not so sure, however, that God is a God of “hard work,honor, and integrity.” Yes, God may be for those things but put in this context they sound more like American Union attributes more than God’s, IMO.
I struggle with this often. I have come to the conclusion (one of which I lapse out of from time to time) that it is not my task, right or duty to assign motive or to withhold from the needy when I am in a position to give. I’m not saying you are suggesting we do, and I realize the complexity that is involved when we move from me or you as a person, a Christian, to the government. There seems to be no easy answers. We need to be wise with our money, to be sure, and I want my government to be wise with their money. At the same time, I want to see a social component to how government uses our money. If I am paying taxes then ideally I would rather see these monies be spent to eliminate hunger and poverty or cure diseases or provide health care for everyone rather than funding a war or wall street or big corporations hoping the money “trickles down.”
and the CHURCH should be the one helping people with their needs
I couldn’t agree more. The church is every bit as responsible, IMO, for the mess we are presently in. Decades ago we abdicated our social responsibilities to the government. We will worry about souls, we said, you (gov’t) worry about bodies. We have seen how disastrous that can be. Now we are scrambling, it seems, to find some balance. The church needs to reclaim its place in the world as more than just a place concerned about eternity and the goverment (or any person or power) ought to stop thinking it can be the Messiah that will wipe out evil.
Just some random thoughts….need more coffee…
When I say having their hand out I’m not worried about people who really need help. I think the church and more importantly our government does everyone an injustice by creating programs people learn to be dependent on without doing anything for themselves. Scriptures are clear the poor will always be among us, but it also says if you don’t work you don’t eat. And God created us as workers, with those abilities, and he commanded us to rest one day a week. If someone is “milking” the system then they are not working 6 and resting 1…this has spiritual roots, and we can’t just put our heads in the sand and say well Jesus cares about the poor and do nothing about their spiritual state, their heart, their hope! WE are called to share, but we stop short of the High Call in Christ Jesus if we share only some $$$ and not the hope we have in Him. And then share resources that make people want to work, provide, and work the land.
So I agree that we should help everyone regardless of race, religion, gender but we have created a welfare culture that I believe is not honoring God. I lived in a neighborhood for 3 years in L.A. with a bunch of people milking the system. They lived in apartments that gave them a huge break for being on welfare (while I paid full price working 2 jobs to survive in Los Angeles) and they drove nicer cars than most of my friends…and they drank and partied every night of the week. Now I didn’t judge them because my Dad instilled in me no judgment and work your tail off and do whatever it takes to survive. Worry about you not anyone else!
Now when Jesus spoke of the poor and the oppressed, keep in mind…it was the way the rulers of the Jewish Religion as well as the Roman Empire who made sure the poor stayed oppressed with their religious rules and laws that upset Jesus! So it was actually the systems fault that the poor people remained poor and oppressed. Of coarse we have some of this going on in our government and society too. How we distinguish between the two; honestly I can’t tell you that, but there is a difference between the single mother working 2 jobs and raising 3 kids, who can’t seem to get a head or get the same breaks for her and her kids that other people get; therefore her kids live in less than appropriate quarters, and receive poor education and care. This family the church needs to help and our local governments can do some things to see that the kids are set up for a future like everyone else attending college, receiving scholarships, grants, training, etc. But to the mother who has 6 kids and on welfare for the last 6 years and gets pregnant again by a different father, at 25…we must admit the system is broken and needs to get fixed. Just giving them a hand out doesn’t fix anything it makes the problem worse. Her kids will grow up with this as their ideal, and the problem then becomes cyclical. And believe me, I no longer judge these people, my heart breaks for them because if they had hope inside of them, things would be different, very different!
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Tony-
You raise some very good points worth consideration. I agree with you that there are no easy answers.
Our systems, indeed, ANY system, is just that – a structure built because we do not trust God (personally or socially). Institutions are what they are because we feel we can still build Babel and in and of ourselves we can make the world a better place – we can be “like God.”
I do not want to say that helping someone in need is not sharing the gospel unless they are urged to repent or confess. Yes, evangelism is all those things as well but I think we need to be caerful in making too sharp a distinction between the two. When Jesus separates the sheep from the goats in Matthew his concern is not with what people were saying to each other but how people were treating one another. If you gave a cup of water to these, you did it to me, Jesus said. There is something Jesus-like about simply sharing what we have to the needy without an agenda – simply doing it because we recognize that they are Christ in our midst.
Have you read much about the Sacred Portion or the Fields of the Fatherless (I suspect you have given our similar adoptive stories). What do you think of the provisions God made throughout the OT to just allow any “stranger” or “poor” or “orphan” to glean off the fields? Do you think that was wellfare? How do you think that is different from our current wellfare system? (I will grant you they are worlds apart – heck, I would LOVE if we could have a Jubilee year where every 7 years all our debts were wiped clean!!!) Woulddn’t that be great??
peace
Chad,
No doubt the helping the poor can and should always be agenda free; to me the sharing of hope comes from who we are and what we do…not a set of beliefs we try to get those we help to assend to. In other words, we share our time, money, or stuff with someone and Jesus said, we are doing it to him…but we must share God’s hope just as Christ himself did to countless people in the scriptures…woman at the well would be a great example, the woman caught in adultry, etc.
And I think welfare like anything can be used rightly. Welfare can work, but when the system is taken advantage of then it’s sin…taking something like God’s provision through others and abusing it, is sin; it’s that simple. God provides, you abuse it…thats sin…missing the mark of the intent for God’s provision. This is why the manna was only enough for the days portion, and 2 days worth on the eve of the sabbath. God knows man’s heart, if he left it out all the time or if the provision was unlimited, man would be tempted to abuse it.
So we agree to make sure provision is never withheld for to do so is inhuman, but where do we draw the line in using wisdom, and realizing that Jesus said whatever you do to the least of these, you also have done unto me. Is there a line? Is Jesus really saying that if I withhold provision from the guy I have been helping for over a year now and he still refuses to ANYTHING for himself, then I’m missing the boat because I should see the homeless guy as Jesus, or am I off the hook after a whole year!!! Sure seems like a line is appropriate, and somethign beyond the giving and provision must be discussed and mentioned as in the resurrection of Christ…I want to tell the guy you don’t have to live this way.
Your god is a false god, and a black woman. Though I have come face to face with angry black women before, they cannot compare to the wrath God is building up for those who hate Him and do not believe the Gospel.
Well, Johnny, it is a good thing I do not hate God and believe the Gospel.
peace to you
Johnny,
Way to twist the words of the author of this blog and cast your oh so wonderful righteous judgement. If your interested in carrying on interesting and honest conversation then please do so, if your interested in casting judgement and telling us how your right and everyone else is wrong and your understanding of the gospel is the only one that is correct then go somewhere and find people who just can’t wait to debate all of the reasons they are more correct than you:)
Peace
Tony