I stumbled on this post by Ken Silva of Apprising MInistries that really disturbed me. He doesn’t allow comments on his site so I am linking to it from here in hopes of airing it out some. The article he wrote is titled, “When Rob Bell Tells You What the Bible Means, It Is Not True” and can be read HERE.
Ken, in this article, asserts that Rob Bell does not believe we can know what the Bible means. He couldn’t be further from the mark on this. The point Bell was making is that we are ALL conditioned by our environment and our own limited understanding and therefore we need community that is actively discerning what the Holy Spirit is saying to us to get to the heart of scripture. Bell is advocating a communal reading of scripture (the way it was read in Jesus’ day) over and against a myopic, individualistic reading of scripture. Nothing more, nothing less.
Ken then says this: They don’t like what the Creator has told us about our true human nature in the Bible, so they just attempt to deny the concept of an absolute meaning, period. Apparently Ken has never listened to a single sermon by Rob Bell and if he has, than he is being dishonest. Time and time again Bell refers to the depravity of man and our sinfulness and brokenness. The answer to this? The shed blood of Jesus Christ who died for the sins of the world and to bring about its healing. This is a message that is all over Bell’s teachings. How does Ken miss it? Unless, they are so blinded by the name “Rob Bell” that whenever they read something he writes they completely forget how to read.
I have invited Ken Silva, the author of the article, to this thread to explain how he comes to these far out conclusions.
Thoughts?
Filed under: Rob Bell | Tagged: Bible, Christianity, Church, Ken Silva, Rob Bell, Velvet Elvis
I think you’ve nailed it. I was listening to the Directions 2.0 series from Mars Hill just this week, and after reading that article, I couldn’t understand how he would come to that conclusion.
Yeah, I don’t get it either. Most critics of his I find haven’t actually listened to much if anything that he says. Most of their info comes from other critics.
Thanks for sharing. I hope Ken decides to pay a visit here and explain how he comes to his conclusions.
peace.
I think Rob Bell and we speak a different language than that of Ken. Systems-Sensitive Leadership by Armour and Browning explains this scenario very well. Rob is using system 6 and 7 language – community, fluid, incorporating, truth can be found through conversation. Ken understands it within a system 4 worldview/thinking system – right/wrong, within certain previously laid boundaries, aligning with acknowledged authority figures (MacArthur), truth must founded on the written law.
If we want to converse with people of a different thinking system than ours we need to use their language. We must remember that there is no right or wrong thinking system, they are just different.
I’ve been perplexed myself at the uncharitable readings people give Rob Bell. If they tried a little harder to put a sentence in context or understand it in a different light they would find little, if anything, to criticize. Honestly I’ve chalked it up to common prejudice that borders on hysteria.
That heretic Rob Bell is under mining the Truth. He is denying sound and solid doctrine that supports our very fragile Truth. If he and his fellow emergent monks continue with their Buddhistifying of the Gospel thousands of gullible Christians will follow them to the gates of hell. The gates of hell should never be approached. They are dangerous to our Church.
Will – Based on your screen name I am desperately wanting to think you are trying to be funny. But I’ll bite all the same – how is Bell denying “sound and solid doctrine that supports our very fragile Truth”? And please, what about Bells Gospel is “Buddhistifying”?
I disagree with your last statement. The gates of hell most certainly ARE to be approached. More than that, they are to be stormed. Jesus promised that the gates of hell will not prevail against us. This does not mean that we will be attacked by gates and win, but that we are to shine light into darkness.
peace,
Chad
Eugene and Josh – I agree with what both of you said.
I see so many people like Ken Silva and Faith Defenders and Hank Hanelgraff telling us how wrong people like Rob Bell are for their unorthodox doctrines. To my knowledge I have never heard of Rob Bell talking trash about other Christian leaders. Go figure!
The Truth needs defenders like the esteemed Discernmentalist pastor-teacher Ken Silva and myself. Because the Truth is fragile and cannot withstand the onslaught from the “guru’s”, “roshi’s”, “sensei’s” and cult leaders of the emergent panentheism and therefore needs defenders to stand on the walls and shoot fiery arrows at these deceivers. As my favourite Discernmentalist pastor-teacher Ken Silva says:
Bell comes out swinging against the Truth by making the Bible into wishy washy soft all love and hope, I shall hurt no one, I can be a better person which all goes against the Truth. This is the same as Buddhist teachings. Our Truth is clear that God hates sinners and He is full of vengeance against the non elect.
The truth can be found here.
Will,
With all due respect, God does not need you or Ken to defend God’s truth. Truth is not “fragile” as you claim.
(Honestly, I am still trying to figure out if you employing satire – it is hard to imagine someone using rhetoric like yours with a straight face).
Which of Bell’s sermons have you listened to?
Where in any of Bell’s messages have you heard him say that faith is all about just becoming a better person or that it is possible on your own?
I disagree that God hates sinners and is full of vengeance against the non-elect. Jesus came into the world not to condemn it but save it, for God loves the whole world, not just some sect.
grace and peace,
Chad
I will not listen to Rob Bell’s sermons as no elected person should pollute their sensitive ears with this “gospel” of “acceptance and redemption of all”. I need only read what the esteemed Discernmentalist pastor-teacher Ken Silva writes about these heretics and what the great Pastor MacArthur preaches about the emergent cults. One should guard one’s mind by not listening to anything else but the Truth of the Great Maitre Calvin.
Chad, it is clear to me that you are ignorant to the Truth.
Will, after looking at what you linked to I see clearly that you are not one to even attempt to reason with. I find it interesting that in your list of those who should only be listened to for truth there is not a single mention of Jesus Christ the Holy Spirit or scripture. All hail Lord Silva and MacArthur and Calvin, right?
Take care.
You are finally coming around Chad. Reason should never be used when dealing with the awesome Truth. You are slow but continue and you might be found to be one of the elected.
lol. Will, you are nearly as funny in type as you are on screen
I loved you in Anchorman, btw.
One of the great joys of going to Mars is being able to compare what you see on a weekly basis with what you read online. It cracks me up.
Joe, you attend Mars Hill? Some friends of mine are wanting to make a road trip sometime soon and visit for a weekend. If you are around I’ll have to look you up.
“Rob is using system 6 and 7 language – community, fluid, incorporating, truth can be found through conversation. Ken understands it within a system 4 worldview/thinking system – right/wrong, within certain previously laid boundaries, aligning with acknowledged authority figures (MacArthur), truth must founded on the written law.”
Yep, guess that’s it. Too bad because now there’s no point in trying to explain what I mean.
Ken,
Surely you would agree that recognizing we have different ways of communicating does not alleviate us of our duty and calling to make ourselves clear. Paul, speaking to the Athenians, did not force them to understand him on Jewish grounds but sought to meet them where they were.
As pastors, especially, we should take the call to be clear as well as the call to be sympathetic to the others position quite seriously. Else we lose all credibility and grounds from which we can witness effectively. Wouldn’t you agree?
With that said, do you care to explain how you came to your conclusions on Bell? Which of his sermons have you listened to?
grace and peace,
Chad
Will-
How are you so sure you are the bearer of the Truth? How are you certain God chose you and not Rob Bell? Please tell me by whose standards you judge yourself to be right and others wrong when we all read the same Bible?
BOC-
A friend on another site, CRN.info, informs me that Will might be a mutual friend of ours. I was suspicous of this at the outset. If it is who I think it is he is making a good point through satire.
peace,
Chad
I’m reading Velvet Elvis now. I’ll be posting a review when I’m done. Two chapters in and I can understand some of the conservative concern but then it would not be fair to judge so quickly.
I have listened to quite a few of Rob Bell’s sermons. I have not heard anything in his sermons that concern me. However, he did make me cry once and I did not appreciate that – it’s not very manly.
Peace.
Tony
The wild goose chase is on.
Tony-
Great book. Sex God is very good as well.
I have been listening to his sermons for about 4 years now. Yeah, I confess to getting wet eyes as well. The irony of that is, though, that those occassions were because Bell has an uncanny way of revealing through scripture my deep brokenness and desperate need for a Savior to restore me to God – the very things that his critics claim (because most likely they have never listened to him) he does not do or is too “wishy washy.”
I tend to get a little agitated when one claims to know all the truth. Although funny, Will represents a large number of Christians who unfortunately run people away from God–there are people like him out there! Thank you for pointing that out. I asked the same question on BiblicalThought.com and got the run around.
For some background info on Ken Silva you should go check out this link.
http://www.verumserum.com/?p=574
As far as I can tell, Ken Silva is not descerning scripture from within community.
Someone once said (I think it was Rob Bell) that its amazing how God could have created all the heavens and the earth and everything in it including you and me but yet at this time, thousands of years after people have been living on this Earth, God suddenly needs internet pastors to defend “the fragile truth” because apparently God himself no longer has the capacity to defend the truth on his own.
Something to think about.
Mark,
Thanks for that link. I have been following verumserum off and on now for the last few weeks. Interesting site.
Yeah, it is ironic that some of the same people who speak so forcefully to defend the sovereignty of God also seem to be the most fearful of God’s plans or truth being thrawted by some pastors. If truth is so fragile how does it have the power to set us free? Didn’t Jesus say that HE was the way, the truth and the life? So Jesus is fragile?
peace.
BOC,
In order to see the Truth you have to rise above the crowd. It is like when you are high up in a building looking down onto people below you can get the better perspective. I hold a higher view than others especially you. Because I am better than you and of higher standing in my own eyes I can see the Truth that you are blind to. You should thank me for sometimes coming down to your level and telling you the Truth. As my mentor, the esteemed Pastor-Teacher Ken Silva, oncesaid to a critic:
I want to add to that: There are none so blind as those who will not see as I do.
If you disagree with me you are wrong.
Will Farel XV
On
my ownTruthWill, you crack me up. Thanks for the parody!
Will-
Thanks for the enlightenment! It is nice to see that Christians can have a sense of humor and use it to make fun of the religious elite. Your blog is awesome!
Will, Calvin and Hobbes was awsome!